Dramatic Improv - Leaning Into The Emotion
The words improv and comedy are so regularly used together, but comedy doesn’t have to be the goal. How do we define what ‘dramatic improv’ is and how is the audience experience different?
This show features:
Chris Lock
Check out Chris’ podcast here: https://www.roughsketch.online/
Kathy Rinaldi
Check out Kathy’s team, Impromptu, here: https://impromptuimprov.com/
Tony Rielage
Tony runs the Dramatic Improv Festival which this year is Oct 6th - 10th. Submissions accepted until June 30th here: https://dramaticimprovfest.com/
Tony also runs the only theatre dedicated to dramatic improv. You can find out more and take classes in dramatic improv and experience it yourself here: https://www.theatremomentum.com/classes
Rachel E Thorn
Check out @sexliesimprov on Facebook and Twitter
MATES: The Improvised '90s Sitcom is @matesimprov on Facebook and Twitter
Lovefool is @lovefool90s on Facebook and Instagram
Episode transcript:
This… is the Improv Chronicle podcast. I'm Lloydie.
Lloydie: It's Tuesday 9th, February 2021. The words “Improv” and “Comedy” are so regularly used together, but comedy doesn't have to be the goal of our artform. When I was contacted by a listener who wanted to talk about dramatic improv a few weeks back, I was keen to talk.
Dramatic improv, get so little attention compared to its comedic sibling, and I wondered why that is. And also, whether it's even possible to delineate easily between what a dramatic improv show and a comedic improv show actually is. This led me to a number of really interesting conversations. And we'll start off with the man who suggested this episode.
Chris Lock: Hello, I'm Chris Lock. I'm a programmer by day, improviser by night and do podcasting.
Lloydie: You see, improv, I think is so often associated with comedy. What do you think is the delineation between comedic improv and dramatic improv?
Chris: I mean, it's so much. I think it's a lot easier for people to go down that comedy route, because if you're trying for drama, it's really like you're putting more than yourself onstage. You're putting your dramatic self, which could mean that you, as an improviser, open yourself up to incoming harm potentially, if that makes sense.
Lloydie: So, you think you need to be more vulnerable in order to do it?
Chris: Yeah. Like you really make yourself vulnerable being that sort of dramatic because you have to dig into those feelings as a character which might dig up feelings of your own self.
Lloydie: I suppose, can we define dramatic scene, because it's more than just the absence of comedy, isn't it?
Chris: It's Sort of. You'd leave extra space normally in dramatic scenes, from what I've done. People get scared about that space. They fear that silence and just kind of let people think about in their feelings a little bit.
Lloydie: 18 months ago, when international travel was actually a thing, I was in Sarasota, in Florida, and one person I met that was part of a dramatic improv group that performed regularly at Florida Studio Theater.
Kathleen Rinaldi: My name is Kathleen Rinaldi. Everybody calls me Kathy. I'm based in Sarasota, Florida, and I am part of a trio called Impromptu that does dramatic improv, basically unscripted plays.
We focus on improv set during the forties and fifties. So, we do Tennessee-Williams-inspired plays and we do Passion Noir, which is like film noir, but from the criminals perspective.
Lloydie: Kathy, Improv is usually associated with comedy. So, what is different about dramatic improv, apart from the fact that, I presume, there are fewer laughs?
Kathleen: There are fewer laughs that are forced. And by that, I mean that in dramatic improv, your humor is organic. So, you're not making up, you're not looking for jokes, you're not following the funny. You are discovering humor in the middle of a normal scene.
So, I'm going to back up a bit and tell you that that is exactly why our group chose dramatic improv, because we had been going through the Florida Studio Theater, which under Will {indistinct 3:47}, Genuflect in His Presence. The school is phenomenal. Will is phenomenal. And we went through the entire full course and we were all doing well. But we weren't feeling really pleased with what we were learning because none of us really liked being intentionally funny.
And so, we had gone to the Sarasota Festival and we saw a group from L.A. Improv Theater. And they had done a – Did they do a Tennessee? Yes, they did a Tennessee Williams. And we looked at each other at the exact same time and said, “That. That's what we want to do.” It was just this momentous head blowing moment.
And then we hired a coach from there and we started working with them and discovered that not following the funny was really the kind of improv that we just adored. And we find it easier.
Lloydie: One name that came up again and again when I was talking to people about dramatic improv was the person who runs a theater and a festival dedicated to the art form.
Tony Rielage: My name is Tony Rielage. I am the Artistic Director and Head Instructor and Founder of Theater Momentum here in Chicago, Illinois. And I am also the – What's the title for this? I don't know what my title is. I'm the Head of the Dramatic Improv Festival in Chicago. I've been doing improv for 29 years now – My goodness – and I have run Theater Momentum since its founding back in 2007.
Lloydie: So, you run a dramatic improv festival and you are, I think, the only theater in Chicago that is dedicated purely to dramatic improv. How would you delineate dramatic improv from the improv that most of us know?
Tony: Well, most improv that most people are familiar with is comedic improv. When you say improv, that is the first thing that comes to mind, at least here in Chicago. And what we do at Theater Momentum is it's really meant more to mimic a traditional scripted play. It's more it's meant to mimic that experience for an audience member. In fact, for a while we didn't take any suggestions whatsoever. We kind of kept in the mindset of T.J. and Dave, I don't know if you're familiar with them.
Lloydie: Yeah.
Tony: Their whole thing of, “Trust us, this is all made up.” And we basically presume that if the audience is enjoying themselves, they don't care as much about whether or not their suggestion gets used in an interesting way. I mean, most of the time, a lay person audience completely forgets the suggestion halfway through the show anyway.
So, we're more focused on creating a deep, complex human stories where people are vulnerable to one another and it feels as though you're just coming to a scripted play and afterwards, you're surprised that it was all made up.
Lloydie: A couple of years ago at the Edinburgh Fringe, I remember going to a show with one of my improv duo partners. We were there to watch another duo who specifically do dramatic improv, and their show had a really strong emotional impact on both of us. So, my next call was to one half of that duo.
Rachel E. Thorn: Well, my stage name is Rachel E. Thorn because one day I'm going to be as famous as Richard E. Grant. That's not why. That's not why. But my stage name is Rachel E. Thorn, and I one-half of Sex, Lies and Improvisation and one-third of the MATES: The Improvised ‘90s Sitcom. And I also write sketches for audio. And I've also been writing and attempting to tour my solo show, Lovefool.
Lloydie: Dramatic improv: I was just thinking, what kind of space within the improv world do you think it currently takes up?
Rachel: In my experience, quite a small space. Because you have to specify dramatic improv in a way you don't. The assumption, if you say the word improv, is comedic. To the point that actually, at one of the fringe festivals, we did With Between Us, we discovered we had slightly weird setup in that we were going once a week for four weeks, and it was only on the fourth week when we were chatting to the Box Office staff that it turned out they'd been pitching to audience members, our show, as comedy. And we said, “But look at the poster. Look how miserable our faces are. What about me and Alex Keen looking at each other intensely, made you think this was a comedy?” and they were like, “But it's improv.”
Lloydie: That is peculiar, isn't it? Why do you think people have the comedic association with improv?
Rachel: I think it's probably because improv is so funny, like it's just such a wonderfully natural way of entertaining yourself and other people. And it's so naturally funny. So, even in very dark, bleak, dramatic shows, there's usually some humor somewhere.
But I think that's the modern way with art generally, isn't it? Like there's not that much that you watch with that hasn't got any humor in it at all nowadays.
Lloydie: With humor being a thing that can happen, what other emotions and reactions can we expect? Here's Chris again.
Chris: Maybe if people see it, they will be both shocked and moved by it. And I think that would be a wonderful thing for an audience member, if I come out of the play. I went to see Monster Calls, the play about cancer. And I was crying in the theater and I was just like, “This is beautiful.” And if it can make me do that, I'm just like, “That's really going to – I don't know. That's really going to change everything that I know about improv, I think.”
Lloydie: Wow.
I've been speaking to people who regularly perform dramatic improv and they talk about the reactions they get. And obviously, the reaction is different to that that you would get from a comedic improv show. How do you think the reactions differ yourself from comedic and dramatic?
Rachel: Hmm, listen, for the gasp of air, the sharp like {indistinct 10:36}; like intake. If you hear that as a “Sss” on stage, if you're listening very carefully, you'll kind of feel that tension grow within the audience. So, for me, that's kind of you've just got to pay a bit more attention to the audience and play with that space a little bit more, I think.
Lloydie: So, if you're willing to play with that space, what can you expect from your audience? Here's Rachel.
Rachel: Well, if anyone is thinking of doing a spot of the old, dramatic improv, I wish someone had said this to me three or four years ago, is that audiences will get so into the storyline that they have very extreme reactions. And I think that is definitely because it's improvised and because they're going on this journey in a way that you don't when something is scripted.
We've made quite a lot of people in the audience cry. A good friend was doing tech for us in one show and they came out and they were a bit kind of upset with us because we’d dealt with themes that were happening in that person's relationship. And they knew that we weren't doing it personally, but they experienced it very personally.
Lloydie: And those personal reactions from the audience is something Kathy really appreciates.
Kathleen: Oh, I love the emotional reactions. My goal, as a performer, and this might be different for Teresa. Teresa likes laughs, but my goal – And Joe may tell you something a little different, but not too different – is that I like that moment of complete silence, when you can hear a pin drop because they don't want to miss a word. That's when I think, “Okay, we have them.” They might not know or have known what to expect, but they are so caught up in this story that they don't want to move. That's my favorite.
The other one is when we can make them laugh and cry. And I've had a person, Joe and I had to do a duo once. We actually have a duo now have another duo with Joe called Unconsciously Coupled, because it's a spin on that Gwyneth Paltrow thing. And it just it was so precious. And so, I said to him, “Let's do it Unconsciously Coupled, because when you've been married for a long time, you are unconsciously coupled, which is, you know, things you just do.
We were doing a show by ourselves and it was a sweet, sweet story, but it got a little sad near the end. And I looked to the side because the stage at Florida Studio is very close to the audience, and there was a woman sobbing. I mean, just sobbing. And I thought – I came out of myself for a minute because I thought, “Oh”, and then it went right back into it. But I thought, “Well, can I ask for anything else?” You know, that either sobbing or silence is wonderful.
So, I don't think we look for laughs. We enjoy them and we welcome them. But for us, it's the reaction of the audience going, “Oh”, or “Ooh” or “You go, girl” or something that makes them caught up in it.
We did a show in Florida, just north of Orlando, and there was a group of people that once saw it and they got so caught up in it. It was sort of a woman's suffrage kind of show. And that's what they were doing, “You go, girl” like they were sitting in their living room, which we didn't get that often, but that kind of thing just inspires me and us and makes us want to do it over and over again.
Lloydie: In all the conversations I had, people talked about “the gasps.” and Tony mentioned those several times as part of the wide range of emotions, audience's experience.
Tony: Well, during the shows, it's kind of all over the place. I told you a little bit about the gasps, like when an audience recognizes something is a really amazing moment. You know, when they when they realize that these two characters are the same person at different points in time, things like that. Those are just my favorite. I love those moments.
Because laughter is something that is it's contagious, it's spontaneous, it's the sound of expectations being broken, it's something that you can't help, you know? And I think a gasp is something that we hide. We cover that up. When people gasp, one of the first things that they did was they cover their mouth because they feel ashamed at having such an emotional outburst. But if they laugh, people laugh raucously and their mouths are wide open.
And what I find awesome, if a bit manipulative, is when audiences laugh during a dramatic improv show, because when they laugh during one of these kind of shows, it's because they've been paying rapt attention to what's going on for 10 minutes, 15 minutes. They're getting to know the characters. They're getting to understand the full story of everybody. And they know that, “Oh, this character has a crush on this character over here and hasn't said it and has talked around it. But, oh, look how awkward he is right now. And look at her ignoring him and oh, that's hilarious.” Not because it's a set punch line thing, but we can recognize ourselves in that.
Lloydie: And there's something in that which I think we can use in almost all improv, the recognizing of something in ourselves. After all, so much of performance is about creating those moments.
As improv continues to become better known, it seems to me the dramatic improv has the capacity to add so much choice to anyone who's an improv curious audience member.
Rachel: As theatregoers, yeah, sure. Sometimes, we do just want to say something really silly and frivolous, and I love that in improv for sure. But sometimes, as theatregoers, we want to be engaged, you want to be challenged, you want to be emotionally affected. And I think dramatic improv is such a good tool for doing that. It just comes with this with this dangerous element in our experience.
Lloydie: Rachel talks about the danger. But if someone wants to try this art form, can that danger be intimidating? Here’s Chris.
Chris: It's a very scary thing to do, and that's open your heart to that sort of dramatic side of things. But actually, it's like one of those things you just have to try once or twice and then you might actually really begin to really enjoy it because you find there's so much more depth to your character, rather than being whoever your character is. So, try not to be scared, embrace it like a warm hug.
Lloydie: And Tony thinks there's a special sort of courage you need in dramatic improv.
Tony: With dramatic improv, we're brave in a different way. It's not bravery that we're going out and doing something crazy and wild, it's your audience wants you to say the thing that they would never have the guts to say in real life; tell your father that you wish he would actually say that he loves you out loud, tell your best friend that you've had a crush on her for years, things like that. And I feel like with dramatic improv, we have that opportunity to really, really go deep. That's rich and meaty. That is worthwhile to me. I just I love it. And those are moments that I chase after. I'm not chasing after the laughter or the sobbing or whatever. I'm just chasing after those deep moments, really.
Lloydie: And if you're going to chase those deep moments, as with anything in improv, the more you practice, the better you get. As Kathy knows.
Kathleen: Once we start rolling, we're not stuck for words. Some people say, “How can you do that? Because you've got to keep the story going, and you've got to think about where you're walking, and you have to have to create the environment and all those sorts of things, all at the same time.” But. For us, it's easy. Joe is a professional actor, I'm a playwright, Teresa's a professional storyteller in amongst all of the other jobs that used to pay money. And so for us, this is what comes easily.
It doesn't feel like work, but we know that we've put hours into learning how to do it properly. And maybe that's why it's easy. You can't learn anything without putting the time into it. So, it looks easy.
Next time… on the Improv Chronicle podcast.
Go to a lot of improv theater websites and alongside the classes in improv, you'll often see classes in sketch comedy as well. Why are improv and sketch such regular bedfellows? And what can we take from improvised comedy and using sketch comedy?
Improv Chronicle podcast is produced and hosted by me Lloydie James Lloyd. Help the podcast by subscribing and rating us right now on your favorite podcast app and help those who have taken part this episode by checking out their details in the show notes. And find out more about previous episodes, including transcripts on the website, improvchronicle.com