Scene Hog? Ensuring Everyone Gets Their Moment to Shine
What happens when one artist takes up too much space? This episode, Lloydie dives into the delicate dance of sharing the spotlight.
We hear from Swedish improviser Hjalmar Hardestam who reflects on the fine line between supporting scenes and steamrolling them. As he recounts his experiences from the Robin Hood International Improv Festival, we're offered a glimpse into the self-awareness required to balance personal drive with ensemble harmony.
We also meet Autumn Unwin, who candidly shares her journey from a newbie to a seasoned improviser with a passion for inclusivity. Both guests explore the nuances of stage dynamics, from the pitfalls of hogging the limelight to the challenges of coaxing reluctant performers into joining the fun on stage.
Guests:
Hjalmar Hardestam
Autumn Unwin
Host:
Lloydie James Lloyd
Podcast Theme:
Composed by Chris Stevens at Studio Dragonfly
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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Scene Hog? Ensuring Everyone Gets Their Moment to Shine
It feels terrible just to do, when you realise that you've done it
Autumn: It feels terrible just to do, when you realise that you've done it. Like, I look back at some of the gigs and I've gone, like, no, this is the idea. I want to do this idea. And you go, oh, I was an ass.
Lloydie James Lloyd: This is the improv Chronicle. I'm Lloydie.
The concept of giving space to other performers is often discussed in improv
The concept of giving space to other performers is something that's often discussed in improv, because feeling crowded out of a scene or even a show can feel pretty crappy when thinking about this.
Lloydie James Lloyd: The other day, it took me back. To a conversation I had with an improviser back at the Robin Hood International Improv Festival in September 2023.
Hjalmar Hardestam: My name is, Hjalmar Hardestam I'm a swedish improviser running my own improv comedy club in Gothenburg, and also performing and teaching at Improv, Erket and Gothenburg Improvisational Theatre, which are the two main theatres in improvisational comedy in Gothenburg. And I'm here in Nottingham doing the Robin Hood festival.
Lloydie James Lloyd: Thank you for being part of our festival. you've been a wonderful player to watch.
Hjalmar talks about balancing taking up too much stage time
I'm really interested in a conversation we had this evening where you were talking about how it's a difficult balance to both kind of be on the front foot and make sure that the stage is occupied, but then also to leave space for other players to play. How do you manage to walk that tone rope and manage that balance?
Hjalmar Hardestam: Yeah, so, we did this set today and I asked you afterwards, now, Lori, that I had a fear of, that I steamrolled the set, like a fear of taking up too much of the space in the scenes, jumping on when the scene went empty. And it's something that, stroked me afterwards. And I had to cheque with some swedish friends that are here as well, and also with some of the team members. How did it feel for you? So I guess that's why one thing you can do, like, cheque in with the team afterwards, like, how did you, interpret that I handle the situation today with the scenes. Like, did you feel supported or did you felt that I steamrolled? And everyone were, of course, like, saying, no, we had fun and you did a great job only supporting us. And I talked to Amy, a great improviser from Berlin, and she told me that I can tell that you were on stage. You took, much of the stage time, but in a supporting way, and you still left room for each other to talk and to take focus with, how do you say the lamp, which you can put on other people or improvisers to shift focus on other one. For instance, the scene when I was, in the restaurant, in the french restaurant, my role was only to support that scene. Like the power dynamics, as a male as well. I think we played with something of that, and also this big french character that m aim played. But it's hard, and for me, it's especially hard because my whole improv career, in a sense, has been that I have been a very driven improviser and I really want to develop play a lot. And therefore, when I do play with other people, and I'm from a small town as well, the other improviser weren't, that familiar with specific moves, maybe, or school of thoughts. And I played a lot with different people as well. So sometimes I like scene painted them on moves as well. And I remember this one time when I played with an improviser from Stockholm and I started to scene paint her in the scene and she was just snapping me off and like, I'm going there, Jalma, you can shill. And that was, for me, such a great, awakening, in a sense, that I can relax, I can shield as well.
Lloydie James Lloyd: Most of us have had a show where we've taken up some space we didn't actually need to take up. And I suspect Hjalmar's awakening isn't unique.
Autumn: We've all watched improv shows where there's maybe six people in a backline, five people in the background, and there is one person who is desperate to be the main character, or on the opposite side, which is so much worse. There is one person who is constantly just about to step forward and can't get on show.
Lloydie James Lloyd: Autumn Unwin is an improviser who lives in Scotland. She used to live in the Midlands in England and played with date night, tiny stories, canny funny and many other fantastic groups.
Autumn: I think everyone who's started off doing improv, or maybe, like a very, very young improviser, has had the moment of just, you're too excited and you've got so many ideas and you just want to get them all out on stage and you will inevitably walk over someone and it just. It feels terrible just to do when you realise that you've done it. Like, I look back at some of the gigs and I've gone like, no, this is the idea. I want to do this idea. And you go, oh, I was an ass. And it's just, yeah, it's not fun to think about and, you know, it's not fun for the person to do it. And once it happens to you, you know, it's how fun. It's not.
Lloydie James Lloyd: So how do we remedy this?
Hjalmar introduces concept of micro and macro focus in improv workshops
Back to Hjalmar.
Hjalmar Hardestam: I, ah, did the intensive at IO this summer and at Owens as well. And we had this the first week. We had Gretchen Eng, a great teacher and a performer as well, and she introduced the concept of micro and macro focus. And with the meaning that we are micro focusing on each other when we are in the scene. And the macro, focus is, of course, then around everything else, like, where are we in the show? What does the show needs? Have we honoured the suggestion? But also, has everyone been on stage so far? Do we have, like, everyone on stage? Because if you don't get on stage on top of the scene, it might get more frightened to get on the scene later. So that's something that I really brought from her, like the macro focus as well. And to be aware of that and to point out someone, if they are, like, back, hanging back a lot in the scenes, that you can just bring them on scene as you were suggesting or talking about. And that's something that I, by myself today because I was so inspired and I just had a great and fun time. And I think that the ensemble felt that as well. Anyway, in the checkout they told us that it did, but it's still something that you. It's very great to be aware of.
Lloydie James Lloyd: now, being aware of this is healthy because I suspect we're all going to do it from time to time. Undoubtedly, some people do it more than others. So how do we recognise it when we're doing it back to autumn?
Autumn: It takes a level of maturity. Yeah.
Autumn: It's that moment of realisation where it clicks in your brain that this improv show is not my vehicle. This improv show is our improv show. This isn't my show. This is for all of us. And that without all of us taking part or without all of us working to make sure everyone else looks good, then it doesn't work as an improv show. It now becomes just a group of disparate stand ups trying to be the funniest. yeah, there is that, I think because you do watch it when it clicks in people's minds. And I've been to workshops where, like, complete, improv newbies have done it. And they're all. Because you get that mix in improv, like 101 classes or newbie classes, where you have the ones who've always been told they're very funny and are very, very loud, and the ones who are just who are there to, maybe reduce, the social anxiety or meet new friends or sort of come out the shed a little bit and they're often just at the back not wanting to step forward and they have to be not pushed forward, rather, but helped forward and given the space to be allowed to come forward. And often when they do, it's absolute gold. There is also a sense of, not pride, but a sort of general warmth when someone who's been quiet for a whole show or a whole session, they haven't been given the space and you do sort of go, no, it's their turn. let them do the thing or you invite them onto the, into a scene and it just clicks and they're fun and witty and they flow and they're relaxed and they're just natural or even opposite when they're just really worried. But you get them on and you just manage them through, or they like, are just happy to go through the scene and hit all the beats and you're like, good, you've done and they leave and they're like smiling and they're happy. You've achieved what you wanted to hear. It's just so much better than watching them cower at the back of a stage. Not either. Not being given the space to step forward.
Lloydie James Lloyd: Yeah, absolutely. And, you see it in workshops as well, don't you? I think there are, ah, the moments where, I mean, I've seen it when people are playing freeze tag, for example, and there are people who've played it for, you know, years and years and years and years and they're like, I've got an idea, I've got another idea. I'm like, there are people who have never played this game before and you really do actually need to give them space. And I've challenged people on this before after workshops and, they've got, wow, I just need to be quicker. It's like, no, no, you need to be an improviser. Yes.
Autumn: When, when that, when that switch does happen and you go from, I want to look the best to I want everyone else to look the best and you part of that is going, everyone needs them to have the time on stage or promote their own ideas on stage. And that is one of the best, I think feelings by that, as an improviser and as someone who's done coaching, they're like, oh, I think I've got it.
Hjalmar Hardestam: It's a saying in the intro anyway, of what I'm aware that, you should, no one should back off. Everyone should take more space. Like everyone should, Everyone should be the one swiping or sweeping the scene. Everyone should be the one that makes the bold offer. And that's something that I don't think is like. It's, a reflection that I've done these days here at the festival. It's something that I really do enjoy watch and to play, ah, with people who does. And it is taking bold choices in the scenes, strong choices. And I think that some, sometimes people can be too polite and I'm not sure that the correct way. I think it's good to have the macro awareness and to be aware that you are taking space in the scene, that you are aware of, that you have been in the two, ah, previous scenes. But I still think the right way to go is to let other people. Who doesn't take space, of course, you have to facilitate the space, so there has to be space. but I don't think that the people that are taking too much space should be the ones that are backing it off. That's my experience, in a way, because all of the improvisers does have this social democratic view on, improv in a sense then that they want and they are leaving space for each other. Like it's 3 seconds delay time on the scene and then it's open for everyone to grab. And I would rather teach or coach performers to take this space and to trust your foot. Or like, ah, it's a saying in Sweden. How is it like, trust your, like trust the niche in your back or the stitch in your back, like, or trust your foot. It's the same expression, but it's like a funny way to put it. Like in your, Yeah, trust your foot. It's that simple, I guess. And trust your impulse and instinct in a scene and trust that they are funny or like, very inspiring for, Because we do, all of us have different references, right. Different way to interpret the world. So something that you will say will definitely surprise me and I will be inspired of it and just trust that. So it boils down to that, I guess, to be secure on stage and to go on impulse.
Autumn: I think some of my favourite moments have been during the notting comedy festival. Ben Macpherson, Hannah Patz and I did a show called Byprov, just the three of us doing like an hour long sketch show. And it was like improvised sketch show, really silly. None of us had like really done a show before, but the scenes where I wasn't in it, I was like, I want. I know you two are some of the two of the funniest people I know most creative. It was almost a case of, well, I've not paid for this, but I feel like I'm watching a show myself. Here you two go have fun.
Lloydie James Lloyd: doesn't that fuel the next scene that you're doing, though?
Lloydie James Lloyd: Right?
Lloydie James Lloyd: Yeah, yeah, it's just.
Autumn: Yeah, it's just being able to watch, like improv means is. Yeah, is half the battle of learning improv as well.
What advice would you give to someone struggling to give people space in improv
Lloydie James Lloyd: I suppose two things come immediately to mind now, and it's two different pieces of advice, essentially, because what advice would you give to somebody who is having trouble getting in there and is having trouble getting space on stage, in shows or in workshops, jams, whatever. And then secondly, what advice would you give to somebody, who maybe has trouble giving people space?
Autumn: So I think the second one's easier. The two advice to give, for someone who is struggling to give people space is just don't go in, step back. you will have ideas. You will have ideas constantly for every single. Ah, our mando theme or option that's given for every different scenario given. You'll have ideas, but just go, no, I've been in. I've been in the last two scenes. No, take a step back and just. Also just relish not being in and just watch everyone else working. it is difficult to catch yourself doing it, but once you do catch yourself doing it, I think, as I said, it does sort of change your mind frame a little bit. But it is just a case of going, I think, to at least to start realising is to go, cool. How many scenes have I been and how many scenes have there been? If that number is more than half, don't go in for a bit. For someone who is on the back line and is wary to go in or is being, like, too cautious, I, can't remember who told me it. You have to hope that you are with a team or you're the group of players who are. Will be wanting to give you the space. but someone that come up was said that literally, once you get an idea and there is a space for it, follow that idea in. In improv compared to any other, like theatre I've done before, whether it's like. Like theatre, or stand up comedy, in improv is wonderfully unique in that if you go in with an idea, everyone on the back line is there to support it. No one wants to see you fail. I've been to. I've done stand up gigs where someone will have a terrible, terrible, like, five minute slot and other comics go, oh, good. That means I look better in comparison. And it's so weird coming into that from like, a standard improv background. I'm like, that feels so wrong. so you need that realisation of, if I go in with an idea, that I've got half an idea, but I think it's going to work, someone's going to come in and build on it. You're going to build on what they've done.
Lloydie James Lloyd: I have a theory.
Autumn: Oh, no.
Lloydie James Lloyd: And I know, and it's always troubling when I do. But I think the shows and the workshops where people aren't being given enough space is often a case of when fear meets fear. And there are two different types of fear. You've got the fear of not coming on, and you've got the people who are constantly steamrolling, and it's the fear of not being good enough or not being the funniest. and when those two fears meet each other, it's very destructive to good improv.
Autumn: Yeah. It becomes a, terrible cycle of just the same thing happening over and over again. Yeah.
Lloydie James Lloyd: Yeah. Because when you have got a reasonable amount of confidence as a performer, you are both able to walk on when you need to, and you are also able to stand back when you know that there are others who haven't played.
Autumn: finding space on stage shouldn't be the responsibility of the person who is nervous or scared in the back line. It should be the responsibility of the people who are more confident to ensure that everyone else gets the time on stage.
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